Working Theories is an email series examining employer-employee relationships and what makes them, well, work. Hosted by Same Page HR, we hope this encourages you to develop and live out your very own working theories.
King of Pops
We sat down with Nick and Steven Carse of King of Pops to talk about something we think a lot about at Same Page: what makes a working relationship actually work?
Nick and Steven Carse have been running King of Pops together for more than 16 years — and they've known each other a lot longer than that, seeing as how they're brothers. Together they've grown the business from a single ice pop stand into a sprawling operation spanning franchising, manufacturing, distribution, restaurants, farms, and yes, a lot more ice pop stands.
So, naturally, we asked them the question you're probably thinking:
Isn't working with your brother and owning a company 50-50 a terrible idea?
Full disclosure: I joined King of Pops in 2010 as employee No. 3 and spent eight years there as the company grew to more than 200 employees across seven states. I had an up-close and personal view of Nick and Steven's working relationship, and the trust, candor, and mutual respect they describe here are very real.
Enjoy!
-Matt
Brother & 50% Partner: Steve Carse
A graduate of the Grady College of Journalism at the University of Georgia, Steven began his career as a journalist before a stint in corporate America that was cut short by the Great Recession, eventually leading to his pivot into popsicles. He's also the author of Work Is Fun, a book exploring his philosophy on work and entrepreneurship.
Beyond his professional life, Steven is a proud husband and father of three, working hard to be a great dad while balancing his many ventures.
Brother & 50% Partner: Nick Carse
Nick’s path to entrepreneurship has been anything but conventional. From earning his Eagle Scout rank and studying abroad in China and England to analyzing data in the insurance industry and prosecuting cases before juries, his varied experiences have helped shape the skills and perspective he brings to building businesses today.
Beyond his popsicle pursuits, Nick is a proud husband and relatively new father, navigating the joys and challenges of parenthood while continuing to pursue his entrepreneurial ambitions.
So back to the original question… How is owning a business with your brother not a terrible disaster?
Steve's answer was pretty honest. He didn't have a secret formula but says they just keep talking.
When they disagree, they talk about it. They pressure-test the idea. They figure out how much each person actually cares about it. And eventually, someone has to make the call.
Steve described one of their biggest differences this way: Nick tends to be more protective of margin. Steve tends to think more about growth.
Neither is necessarily right, and that's actually the point.
They've learned that they don't need to agree on everything. They need to trust that the other person is trying to make the business better.
And that leads to what might have been our favorite line from the conversation:
“Disagreeing is a form of respect.”
I’ve thought about this so many times since our conversation. Most organizations treat disagreement as a problem to solve. But what if disagreement is evidence that something is working? What if disagreement is a feature of a 50-50 partnership, not a bug?
Disagreeing because they think the other is wrong is one thing. But if Steve and Nick can disagree because they believe the other is capable of making the company better—and they trust one another enough to say what they actually think—that's something else entirely.
Nick said their ability to do this comes back to trust. After a lifetime as brothers and 16+ years as business partners, they know the other person isn't going to make a decision that intentionally puts the company at risk. They also know that neither person is trying to win an argument for the sake of winning it.
Those beliefs change the conversation. They can argue about the idea without arguing about the relationship.
And there's another important piece: they don't automatically need consensus.
Nick often says, “That's your seat, and that's your decision to make.” He can give feedback, raise questions, and make the counterargument—but ultimately, if it's Steve's decision to make, Steve gets to make it.
Steve also offered a reminder about what happens when nobody makes the call: “Not making a decision is making a decision.”
The goal isn't to eliminate disagreement. It's to make sure disagreement doesn't become an excuse for inaction.
Trust doesn't mean I know you'll make the same decision I would.
It means I trust you enough to let you make the decision even when I wouldn't make it that way.
A working theory
Healthy working relationships aren't characterized by a lack of disagreement. They're characterized by the ability to disagree without damaging trust.
And that is much harder than it sounds. It requires people to believe three things:
We're on the same team.
I don't think you're trying to make me look bad or prove yourself right. I think we're both trying to make the business better.
You actually want my opinion.
Steve said he could often just make a decision himself, but he usually brings things to Nick because he genuinely wants the feedback—even when that makes the process slower and more frustrating. The alternative, he said, is the “lonely at the top” mentality.
We don't have to agree for the conversation to be worthwhile.
Sometimes the conversation produces a better idea. Sometimes one person changes their mind. Sometimes they simply decide who cares more and move forward. (Editor’s note: Matt and Callie do this all the time, usually when one of us says, “This isn’t a hill I need to die on.” Having a shared shorthand like this can be surprisingly disarming.)
One more thing we loved
For all their big ideas, Steve & Nick have also built a surprising amount of structure around how they work.
They've used different operating systems over the years, but the pieces that have stuck are simple: regular meetings, clear agendas, and a cadence that forces conversations to happen. (They currently use Highland/Northstar, something we’ve enjoyed learning about this year.)
And their one-on-one meetings don't always look like meetings. For different seasons, they've done coffee, beer, lunch, workouts, bike rides, and time with their kids. The format changes, but the important thing is that they keep making space to talk.
Which might be the most practical lesson of all: Good relationships don't maintain themselves just because you have a good relationship.
You have to keep showing up.
You have to keep talking.
You have to keep telling the truth.
And you have to trust that the relationship can survive the truth.
That's what makes a working relationship work.
We hope this little look into “a working relationship that works” is helpful. Perhaps it reminds you of someone you know (forward this to them as an encouragement!), or maybe it will give you an idea of something you’d like to try. We’ll send another story in the weeks ahead.
(Know of someone we should interview? Reply and let us know.)
